英国皇家建筑师学会会刊记者Pamela Buxton采访MVRDV联合创始人Winy Maas：“工作场所、住宅和城市设计都是相互关联的，” Winy Maas说道，“这是一个重新思考我们期待的建筑环境的机会——我们必须是积极的贡献者。”Journalist Pamela Buxton interviewed Winy Maas for RIBA Journal: Workplace, home and city design are all interconnected, says MVRDV's Winy Maas. There is an opportunity to rethink the built environments we want - and we must be active contributors.
图片/Image: © Barbra Verbij
MVRDV联合创始人、主创建筑师Winy MaasWiny Maas, co-founder and principal architect at MVRDV
Q1：疫情过后，办公室还会保持原样吗?Q1: Will offices ever be the same again after Covid-19?
Even before Covid-19, office design was already going through big changes. So the question is, will offices ever be the same as what? I think the pandemic will accelerate some of the changes that were already taking place, such as more leisure places, more communication zones between the desks and also more work done at home. It might stop some of the other changes. Even more of the possible changes are yet to be determined. So it’s important for us, as architects and as human beings, to be active contributors to what we want the offices of the future to be like, in light of the virus. A lot of discussion about post-pandemic architecture and cities forgets that agency.
Q2：随着员工开始重返工作岗位，办公室如何在短期内做出调整以应对社交距离的变化?Q2: How can offices be adapted in the short term to respond to physical distancing as companies start to get staff back to work?
我们对自己的鹿特丹办公室进行了一项研究，如果遵循荷兰政府的建议，在工作时保持1.5米的社交距离，我们办公室的容量将是之前的45%。We did a study of our own office to imagine if we maintain distances at work of 1.5 metres as recommended by the Dutch government. We found that our office has a capacity of 45 percent of its previous capacity.
Design solutions might increase that a little. But even to make 45 per cent possible there is a more important consideration, which is policies. How do we make sure people don’t spend too much time in close quarters, in corridors and on stairs, for example? How do meetings take place without being too close? In this way, every office should do a similar study before returning to work. They should assess their capacity and write policies that best fit the space they currently have.
Q3：制定这种返岗策略的主要挑战有哪些?Q3: What are the main challenges of this?
The biggest challenge will be people looking for easy answers. Some people seem to think we might see a return to 1980s-style cubicle offices with barriers between desks to stop the spread of the virus. I doubt the effectiveness of that. But even more importantly, is that really something we want to go back to?
Q4：疫情对设计办公空间的长期影响是什么?Q4: What will be the longer-term impact of Covid-19 on how offices are designed?
很难准确地预测将来办公空间的设计会发生什么变化，但我可以谈谈我个人希望看到的变化。许多公司都因为疫情而被迫开发远程办公系统；而且它们发现，员工大规模在家办公是可行的。It is difficult to predict exactly what the change will be, but I can certainly speak about the changes I personally would like to see. I think many companies were forced by Covid-19 to develop work-from-home systems. Companies have seen that having employees work from home on a large scale is possible.
这带来了很多影响。其中一个是疫情突出了对开放式办公室设计的巨大批评，而这是我们以前的设计范例。多年来，人们批评开放式办公空间造成了太多的干扰。办公空间的设计朝着不同的方向发展。现在这个观点有点改变了：如果你知道自己可以待在家里集中注意力工作，那为什么还要去办公室呢?This has had many effects. One is that it has highlighted a big criticism of open-plan office design, which was our previous design paradigm. For years people criticised open offices for creating too many distractions. Office design was already moving in a different direction. Now that argument is a bit changed. Why would you go to the office if you know you can stay home and concentrate properly?
我认为办公室可能适合另一种类型的工作，也许我可以从我自己的经历中提出一些关于这方面的看法。在我们鹿特丹的办公室，我没有办公桌。我经常出差——至少在今年三月份以前是这样的。无论是在家里、会议室还是在旅途中，我已经习惯用笔记本电脑工作了。这也让我在办公室时能够以一种不同的方式来工作：如果我在办公室，那我通常在与其他人合作、分享看法、作为团队的一员一同创造。Zoom软件目前还不能取代肢体语言……I think offices should be for a different type of work. Perhaps I can provide some insight into this from my own life. In our office I don’t have a desk. I travel a lot - or at least I did until March. And I already work on my laptop, whether I’m at home, in meeting rooms or on the road. That allows me to treat my time in the office differently. If I’m there, it’s to collaborate with others. To share ideas. To create things as part of a team. Zoom meetings cannot replace body language yet…
Most people have jobs that need at least some of both types of work. So the question will be how do we make offices the right environment for working together with others? How do we design spaces that encourage deep collaboration? What would a desk look like if it was designed for communicating with others, instead of closing yourself off from the room? How can meeting rooms be more productive?
Q5：你认为目前对灵活办公和共享办公的社会性和公共性在疫情后会继续被强调吗?Q5: Do you think the recent emphasis on agile working and the social, communal aspect of the shared office will continue post-Covid-19?
I hope it will continue. I also hope it will become more nuanced. Improving the communal aspect of offices is much more complex than bringing in a ping-pong table - although there is also room for that, too. It is not only about providing amenities. It is about creating places where people can feel like they can accomplish things effectively. And that they can feel together… at home somehow.
Q6：你认为会有更多的人长期在家工作吗?Q6: Do you think more people will end up working from home permanently?
Perhaps some people will. But I hope not too many. Because now we are talking about a different scale, the urban scale. The urban impact of huge numbers of people working from home permanently would be significant and probably not positive. Cities are given a pulse by people travelling to work every day, whether they travel into the city from elsewhere or they move within the city. That movement of people is one of the things that keeps cities lively. It makes them fun, exciting places to be. Without that pulse, and without having to consider how long their daily commute would be, people may become less attracted to cities. Urban space could begin to sprawl again, like it did in the second half of the 20th century. That would be an environmental and social disaster and we’d end up regretting it, just as we now regret 20th-century sprawl.
Q7：如何设计办公室，使它成为在家办公之外的另一种令人认可的选择?Q7: How can offices be designed to give a compelling alternative to working from home?
在某种程度上，我认为办公室已经是一个令人认可的选择。在家办公的好处可能会改变我们设计办公室的方式。但在我和我的同事们交流之后，我发现他们很怀念同事之间共处的时光。与这种公共精神相吻合的办公室将会很受欢迎并且能高效产出。In a way, I think offices are already offering a compelling alternative. The benefits of working from home could change the way we design offices. But, talking with my colleagues, it’s clear to me that they miss being together with their work mates. Offices that realign with that communal spirit in mind will be popular and productive.
There is also a reverse to your question. If people are able to choose between working from home and going to the office as I’ve suggested - staying home to focus and going to an office to collaborate - how do we ensure that their homes offer a compelling alternative to an office? Working and living in the same space can be psychologically challenging. The usual advice for people working from home is to emphasise the separation between the two. Are people’s homes large enough for this? Will we see a rise in people expecting a spare room or study space for work?
Q8：你认为这是重新设计办公空间的一个积极的机会吗?Q8: Do you see this as a positive opportunity to re-invent how offices are designed?
'Positive' maybe isn’t the right word given the circumstances, but it’s an opportunity we should take advantage of. Not just to re-invent office design, but also home design, city design and so on, because they are all interconnected. There are still many, many questions that need to be answered. But if life as we know it is going to be changed by this virus, shouldn’t we know what kind of life we want to have first?